Rod Neuenschwander - From Crisis to Clarity

Ian, welcome to the same side selling podcast. I am

your host. Ian Altman, today's conversation is a special one.

Many of you know or have heard me talk about my good friend

John Ruland, the founder of giftology. John's generosity and

relationship mindset inspired so many of us. And after John's

unexpected passing last year, his business partner, Rod

neuschwander, did I almost pronounce

that right? Rod, new inch wonder, but you're good.

I'll mess it up from now to the end of time, so I'd

face not only the personal loss of a friend and longtime

business partner, but the challenge of leading their

company through enormous uncertainty. And rod has

released a new book called from crisis to clarity, and it

captures how he and his team found their way through that

season, and what all of us can learn about leadership, purpose

and resilience when everything changes, and when I say

everything I mean, Rod, we talked about it before. It was a

gut punch for me, I can't imagine for you. So thanks for

being here. I know this book comes from a deeply personal

place, and what made you feel the need to write it now?

Well, Ian, I wish that was a short answer, but it's not

so I'm gonna but I think it will provide some context to

everybody.

There's two primary reasons I wrote this book. One is deep,

personal ones deep pragmatic. The personal reason is simple. I

promised John that I would so you backtracked almost 20 years

ago. So 18 years ago when we joined forces, but at that

point, the company is called ruling promotion group, and when

we joined forces, the company was in trouble, and so trying to

figure out what to do with it. This is before John was John

ruling on stage, and for giftology was a thing, right?

And so at that point, prior to that, I had a history in

turnarounds, so, and John's in that story too, but there's just

too many stories that I'm not gonna be able to share with you

all the back, but the how I got into that, but I had done

turnarounds before, so we were in that mode. Our lawyer

approached us because one of his clients needed help, and so John

I talked it over, and we agreed that I would join in that and

help that company as a consultant under the ruling

brand, because we needed the money, quite frankly, and so

well

that engagement led to others, which ultimately resulted

in a separate company that nobody really knows existed,

called Google partners, where we partnered with founders of

companies that were in trouble and needed turnaround, and so we

helped them from turnaround to wealth trading event. Well, fast

forward, 15 plus years later, and John was consistently

pushing me to write about those experiences. You know John. So

you know that he could be annoyingly persistent when he

had those things in his mind. Yeah, a little bit

so. But I was always like, Hey, I

will, I promise you, I'll do it someday. And I just never did

it. Just didn't feel like timing is right. And then pragmatic

reason is, after John passed, I was being asked to participate

in podcasts and things of that sort, and you own a company

called giftology, like, what do you think they want to talk

about? Is gifting? Reality is, is I suck at gifting. I built

the infrastructure to allow others to gift like John and our

team is brilliant at it. That's not my thing. And so and then

one day, I was on a run, and I thought to myself, wonder if I

wrote a book about our current transformation. Think of it like

a real time case study on transformation, because that

allowed me to do two things at once, it honor my promise I made

to John, and then it would also allow me to speak about

pathology and what we're doing to transform, since it's passing

in the way that I can speak to with authority, and so that's

the foundation of why this book came to be. You

know what? I'm so glad you wrote it. And there's,

there's so many great lessons in here. I got to ask you, what did

the first few weeks or months look like for you as a friend

and as a leader, suddenly doing this without him?

Yeah, it's hard to put into words. I'm not generally an

emotional guy. And so when John passed, I was like, like, I was

emotionally like, I didn't know what to do. And so my personal

perspective from, you know, he's my, he's my best friend for 18

years plus, you know, and so that I was because family and

all that, the reality of it was as though is that we had a I

needed. I owed it to our team. I owed it to like our network, who

wanted to help in a way. So we needed to put a framework

together. So literally, within three days after John passed, I

forced myself to sit down and do what I've done for 10 other

companies. Is right out of a recovery plan, what will be our

plan? So what I needed to be able to do is, like, even though

our network wanted to help, we weren't able to, like, harness

that help. Like, well intentioned chaos is still

chaos. And so this allowed us to frame in like, what is our plan

for the company, because, and we had a very by that by the end.

Of that weekend, some of a partner of mine wrote, we sat

down with Shaw Leah, one of our other team members, who mapped

out what the next year would look like for how we're going to

transform the pathology from where it was to where. So within

one week's time frame, we had the framework already built

that's going to look like to the point where, at John's funeral,

we actually were able to meet with, you know, a Lister

networks who came into our funeral wanted to can hear from

us. So we, we literally had a time where we could help them.

This is our plan, and how they can help us go from that point

on. So that's what we did.

And then you're, I mean, at that point, I got to

believe there's a pivot where you're going from. You're kind

of shifting from survival reactive mode to strategic

rebuilding mode. And so in the middle of that loss and chaos,

you built this whole framework. And I think it'd be helpful for

people to kind of unpack what that looks like, because it's

really a valuable lesson that you've got in this where you

built this framework that helps people in any type of crisis

situation to build that clarity. So the name of the book is, is

perfect for that. So can you talk about kind of the main

pillars of that framework? Yeah, so,

and this is, go back to all the companies we partner

with, including, I was the board chair of a

university as well, using thought pattern when we had to

transform that. Transforming a university is complex as it is,

just because everything happens so ridiculously slow, same

framework exists. So the structure of what this looks

like is there's four key elements. Is start with a clear

purpose statement. And this is not like a mission statement.

This is a rally. This is sort of like, like, re anchoring

everything that you're going to be doing to transform your

company for us, ours is simple. We help leaders love on their

relationships, because we believe everything rises on and

falls on relationships, and why relationships take you a

marketing can, and that's been central to everything that

John's been doing, and not what our company has been using. Way

before giftology was actually a thing, right, going all the way

back to our days, right? And so that's what that's that sets the

direction right now, how you actually manage through that is

there's, there's three key elements after your clear

purpose statement, a go forward operating plan. Go forward,

financial plan and go forward. Team can plan. But the key of

this Ian, is that it all has to fit on one page, because we're

simplifying everything down to the highest and most strategic

priorities in all three of those buckets. And so that's, that's

the framework of what we walk through. It's like, what is that

going to look like? And I offered it in the book too. I

gave though. This is, this is there are, like, uncovering of

what we felt like were our realities. And then this, this

is our actual one page plan that we set forth in the primary

element of that centers around your operating plan and the way

we think about that, and the way I do that, as for every company

that we partnered with as a founder in crisis, I center it

on, like, your key economic drivers of, like, that's what

you're operating and it's kind of the what and the who of what,

of what you do. And so I have a very simple formula. I put it

into the here too. It sort of anchors it. It's like, what are

your customers have to pay you for? Shows you what. There's a

market for it. And then of those products and services, what's

the most profitable has Predictable Revenue and scalable

cost centers. Because I know for a recovery to be successful, you

have to have consistent earnings and or predictable revenue. The

scalable cost centers provided a pathway of predictable revenue.

So I sort of anchored everything on that. So for giftologies,

example, we had, we had started working on programmatic side of

like, what the next version of giftology was going to be,

because it wasn't. It's not, it's not about the gifting and

people Johnny, I mean, to hear John say, it's not about the

gifts, it's about the relationship. And we needed

that. We needed to bridge that gap. And so we've been we spent

like years working on like messaging to really, truly

understand, like, how we could get that message across. Well.

So we had built some foundational things prior to

this, and our team, Sarah Hardwick and Mike Monroe

specifically were working on this programmatic side prior to

John passing, and it was literally called John not

needed, which is unbelievably difficult to think about, but on

anchor point. And so that that program, programmatic side,

because we know when John passed, we lost 70% of most

software. So my my goal was, is like, in the operating plan, how

do we what's the march to replace that without putting

pressure on the team to replace it tomorrow? Like we need to

have the march. So we, we on that side. We just needed 600

people, clients joining our program and that. And we had,

before that, even we started, we had 800 people in the in the

free version of it, that were like, this is. Great. So we knew

that the market existed. So for the first part of my my model,

and then, so what we that's, that's, that's what became

mission 600 so our primary operating priority, of the four

or five things that we had listed, there's not 20 things, I

would say we're operating plan has to be three to five Max,

right? That's your priority. So mission 600 was ours.

And what I love rod is that you say it's all going

to fit on one page, so this purpose statement, and then you

know this, go forward on, on operations, finance and team,

it's all going to fit on one page. Because too often I see my

clients like, here's this plan we have, and it's like, 17

pages. I'm like, Dude, no one's gonna read it. Let's let alone

do it. But getting it all to one page, and I'm assuming you don't

mean in four point type, so right?

It forces you to like, what is the most important

things, because not every work. And so right now, these are what

it is. And so from the operating side, it was three to five.

Typically, for the finance plan, you're talking two to three. And

then for the team, plan is two to three. And that's sort of how

it sort of plays out. That and but that that simplification, it

requires you to really operate. I always say it's like operating

in the macro versus the micro, like you have to be able to

speak of the big picture when you're in these situations.

Otherwise everything becomes noise. And here's the thing, the

reality of it is, is it's easy to fall back into like doing,

because like, there's, there's so many things to like you have

to address and do, but you like, you're not going to transform

your company by doing. So you have to, like, be able to step

out of it and say, what are the major things that I need to

focus my energy on and have my team focused on as we continue

to serve and support our client base and make that transition

happen. So that's that's why it's on page.

Of course, one of the things you talk about is is

separating what's in your control from what's not in your

control. And I imagine that's got to be especially challenging

for people when emotions and urgency are high as you were

going through. And so when you're in that kind of you know

that crisis mode. What's the discipline that you follow as

you're making calm, clear decisions? Or is it just coming

back to this framework? If you want to get top results for your

team, take a look at the same side selling Academy. Just visit

same side selling.com to learn more.

The framework is your anchor. That anchors you. But I

will say, like in the book, I talk about it too, it's like you

have to be able to lead yourself first, an emotional framework

deal with that you can't

deal with it. And it's not just about like your team's coming.

You your team are in our case, we had a broader network of

it's not just about like, like your emotional response. So if

you panic, your organization will spiral. And so if you're

not able to like frame yourself and be able to lead yourself

first. You're not going to be successful in this whole thing.

So I talked about how to do that in the book. And for me, I have

a personal habit of running. It's kind of an obsession. At

this point I've had it Mr. I haven't missed a week of runs in

over 15 years. Now. It's like then and so. But for me, it's

actually not just the physical benefits also, like, the only

time I'm completely alone in my thoughts, like, I have time for

prayer. I have time for like, addressing some thing I'm

concerned about. It's like that time allows me to, like, really

center myself. And then the other thing that we we talk

about openly and within the team is like, we face brutal facts

and reality, like we don't, like, acting like something

doesn't exist isn't going to help anybody, and pretending

some miraculous things going to happen isn't help anybody,

either. It's like, you can start with those two anchor points,

then you can, sort of like, work yourself through the emotional

side of it.

Particular case, like, I

have to say, was probably like, by far the most challenging,

just because of my deep personal relationship with them, and

trying to reconcile that side of it at the same time as that was

exceedingly challenging for me.

Oh, yeah, you know, it's just like, I don't know how

many times talking to people on your team, like, how's the team

doing? How's rod doing? It's like, you know, yeah, of course,

I want to know how Lindsay was doing and other kids doing and

all that. But it's like, more man, like, this is like, because

everyone guess what, it's okay. We're dealing with this grief,

and we have to keep going, and we have to grow, and we have to

honor John's legacy, all at the same time, while you're also

dealing with this. I don't know if you know this. My listeners

probably heard me tell this story a bunch of times, but the

way that John and I met was over the years as a speaker, I get a

lot of gifts from people, and there were three gifts that

stood out over and over, and the first time I got something, wow,

this is really cool. That's really interesting, that's made

a huge impression, and it's personalized to me and my wife,

not to anyone else. Hey, I gotta ask, where'd you get this? Oh,

this group, giftology. And John. Ian ruling, whatever. Okay, it's

interesting. And then, like, few months later, I get this other

gift, totally different gift, personalize this and that for me

and my wife, I'm like, that's really interesting, because all

these other gifts I've totally forgotten about, they make no

impression. This is second thing that has, Hey, where'd you get

this? Oh, I don't know. Let me check with my team. And then,

like, they come back, some guy, John ruling, giftology,

interesting. By the time we get the third one, I was like, Hey,

did you get this from giftology? And John ruling, Yeah, how'd you

know? Just a hunch. And it was like, I reached out to John. I'm

like, dude, like, this is when I'm speaking. I'm covering these

stories, and I'm sharing your story because it made a big

difference. And you know, there's so many things that it's

funny, my clients will say to me, they'll be like, yeah, and

as Ian tells us, you don't want to give a gift during the

holidays when everyone else does, I'm like, no, no, as John

said, like you heard it from me, but it was like, that was, that

was John's message. And then with my clients, it's like,

we'll send a gift. And more than half of them, I believe, reach

out to you guys and like, Okay, we need to do a program like

this for our clients. And it's just they see how it makes them

feel, and they're like, Okay. And it's funny, because I'm sure

you guys face this as a business, where people come to

you and like, what's the ROI for this? Like, can you can you

measure it tangibly? It's like, okay, I can't tell you what's

the specific ROI. I can tell you that when we do this, we tend to

get a lot more referrals and repeat business, yeah. Like, is

it just because of that? No, but what it does our clients say,

Wow, these guys really appreciate us. And what I find

funny is we'll send a gift to somebody, and then six months

later, the guy will call up, and I'm like, Oh, hey, what inspired

you to call? He goes, Oh, my wife was using that thing you

sent us. And said, Hey, if you talk to Ian Altman lately, and

it's like, Where'd that come from? And it's things like that

John taught, and using what you guys teach at giftology is so

valuable. So yeah, what I'm curious about is, how did you

talk to your team during this period, and what did you find

worked and what didn't work? Because obviously you can't just

say, Hey guys, John's not here to do this. So here, like, like

you said before, you can't just shift all the pressure to them.

They feel enough pressure as it is. So how'd you talk to them?

What worked and what didn't?

You know? Like I said, we're I was honest. Like, hey,

listen, I know. Like, the first the very first day after

he passed, we had a meeting that day, and then the very next

meeting, we had another meeting. I'm like, I know you're

expecting me to have a plan, because that's who I am. Not

there yet, I was just super honest with them. But the

reality of it is, is that, like coming back to them on day three

with the framework of like, I don't know how everything is

going to look, but here's what I do. Know it's like the market

needs what we have to offer and offer it. And so, you know,

steadfast in that. You know, over the last since that

timeframe, though, we set the direction in the guard girls

based on the one page plan that you can read here, and we've

been able to recalibrate giftology. Because the reality

of it is, is like, there's no way you can replace a John

ruling. It's irreplaceable. But we had unbelievable talent in in

a lot of really positive things happening within the company

that we leaned on heavily and became our future and part of

that whole thing. So what we talk about openly in the company

is like we're honoring John's legacy by transforming into what

we can become, and not preserving what we was right

this transition, like what we were able to do, we mapped out

this was part of our overall plan. Anyway. John was going to

be the leading voice in this transition. He wasn't here to do

it, but we condensed three years worth of plans into one year of

execution. This team did it so they're amazing. That's but

that's what it takes, because we simplified our approach, right?

And the other thing I'll tell you is, like Lindsay, John,

spouse and I are 100% behind this. And so the one way you can

show it as leaders, as you push your money where your mouth is,

so if you go to our financial plan, so we have mission 600 but

the question was, how do you fund that plan? Well, in our

financial plan is like, what I quickly realized is like, if

Lindsay, if John and I's income wouldn't be encumbered on the

company, then for we would keep our whole team intact, and we'd

remain profitable as we transform. So we made that

commitment so for two years. So, like, we're giving our team the

runway. If you want to inspire your team, you put your money

where your mouth is. Say, I'm betting on you.

Yeah, you know what? It's interesting. My prior

business post, 911 we had we thought we were highly

diversified in our business, and it turns out we were. We were

diversified in insurance, financial services, banking, all

financial services. It's like, in our mind, we had three

different markets. It was all financial services. Post 911 it

was like we just got crushed. And as we were rebuilding, I

remember we weren't probably a flaw at the time. We weren't as

transparent as you guys are, and so I don't think our team even

realized it for a while. But at one point someone said, well,

like, we haven't had raises or anything. I said, Look, you

know, Bob and I, we're the two owners the company. We haven't

paid ourselves because we didn't want you guys to feel this. And

all of a sudden the team was like, oh, like, we had no idea,

okay. And just that kind of inspired people, which was a

clue to me that I should have said something earlier. And of

course, we rebuilt it, it grew, and then we ended up building a

much larger organization over a couple years. But it was a it

was a big learning experience, and I think that the personal

touch that you guys have, the relationship with your team,

this clarity that you provided under crisis, I think, obviously

inspired your team. I've never got the sense in talking to

people on your team that people felt, oh, like there's no way

forward. I think they always felt like, No, we got to honor

John's legacy, and here's the way we're going to do it. And

you know, and I think that you know, knowing John, John would

be extremely proud of what you've done, what the team's

doing, and would feel really honored in doing so. And I think

he'd be pissed that he's not here to celebrate it with us,

but, but, you know, but he'd be proud of what everyone's done.

It's

heartbreaking too, for that same reason, because he

would be super excited about the direction that we've taken the

brand and the speed at which we've done it. But the the

point, like, what you mentioned is not unusual, though, because

we're talking about a situation where our situation is dramatic

event, like, there's, like, everybody's aware, right? So,

but like, what you talked about is a different type of crisis,

but it's still a crisis, right? So I talk about there's four

types of crisis in the book that we talked about, because in my

at least, from my experience, like there's four crisis, there

might be more, but from my experiences, and some of those

are those types of things where it's like, like a fire I call it

is like when you lose somebody like John and 70% of your

revenue. But there's others like slow leaks, where you know

things just are eroding, but you don't address them. Or there's

like leadership challenges where you know those are really hard

because people have to be humble. What people don't know

about John is John was so successful in world class

talent, but unbelievably humble and so

but I've experienced the exact opposite too, right? And so

there's other leadership challenges

that are really difficult, because you have to have that

humility in order for to make that change happen. And then

there's others, like hamster, I call it chronic

underperformance, like, I've been partnered with so many

companies with chronic underperformance crisis, where

it's like they were, in some cases, they were in business for

over 20 years, when they're just sort of existed, right? But the

same framework we use for giftology, we use for all these

companies, isn't it helps you, like this, jump out of that

crisis into the next phase as you move forward. So it doesn't

matter what, what sort of situation you're talking about,

it still works, right? And so in our case, that's it's just more

apparent and obvious, and everybody can see it.

Yeah, and it's interesting, because I have

clients who they'll be facing, and I think every organization

gets this where you feel like whatever you're facing is the

biggest thing possible that you couldn't imagine. And the beauty

of of what you've done and what you've written about is that,

you know, I think that by most standards, what you faced is

about as big of a gut punch as someone can have. And you came

up with a resilient path to provide that clarity and end up

with, you know, coming out on the other end in a really good

spot. And I think that when people struggle with things

like, I'll get clients like, oh, you know, we lost this account,

man. Like, and they'll, like, fall into what, you know, what

is probably clinically defined as depression. I'm like, Dude,

you got a $20 million business that's thrown off profit, and

you just lost a major account. And that's upsetting. But in the

grand scheme of things, you got a really successful business.

You're doing great like put it in perspective. And I think

coming back to that notion of what's your purpose, what's your

go forward play, that framework, those pillars of what's my go go

forward, playing operationally, financially and with a team, get

it down to one page. I think that's such a powerful message

for people, that no matter where they are, no matter what crisis

they feel they're in, if that got you through this, then using

that same model for other people's businesses and with all

the different businesses that you've helped, I think it's a

very valuable tool. So Ron, where's the best place for

people to get the book and to learn more about. What you guys

do on a giftology

so the book can get on Amazon, or you can go to

business on the brink.com.

Okay, so business on the brink.com or Amazon, the

book is called From Crisis to clarity. Correct,

yep, correct, yep. Giftology group.com Yeah.

Giftology group.com and of course, you know most of

the people on this podcast, obviously, people are our

clients on the receiving end of stuff that comes from giftology.

And I can't tell you rod the operation side of it and how you

executed that so your and the the amazing people on your team.

And I just want to share a couple stories where we close so

that people can appreciate the stuff that that you guys do. I

can't tell you, over the last whatever decade or so, how many

times I have said to someone on your team, oh, let's send this

to so and so, and your team says, Hey, that's a great idea.

Ian, in fact, it's such a great idea that you sent that to them

18 months ago. Here's what we suggest instead. And I'm like,

How do you know that? Like, I lost track of what we sent to

this person. Or I'll say, hey, I want to send this to somebody.

It's a new client. They're like, we're happy to send that. It's

not a new client. You send them something six months ago, and

like, Oh, I forgot. Like, that's why we want you to have this

structure and this process. And I'm like, Yeah, I know. And so

they always cover that. People often say to me, they're like,

man, like the note you guys write is, like, so thoughtful,

and like, so like, the handwriting is perfect. I'm

like, a It's not my handwriting. And two, the people at giftology

crafted that note, because I will usually say, here's the

note I want to send. And one of your gift one of your giftology

experts will be like, Hey, Ian, that's a lovely note. What do

you think about this instead, like that's way better. And now

I will often just say, here's the note, here's the gist of

what I want to send. What should it say? And your team comes back

with something that's way better than I would have ever written,

and

they're so gifted in what they do. But the center of

what you talked about, if the operational system has been

designed because of one reason, and that's because we're

handling people's most important relationships, and we know

that's currency, right? And so we have to deliver excellence

every single time. And so we built structures and sure that

we can deliver excellence because we know the critical

nature of it. And so it ties back to that mission that we

talked about earlier, prior to this ever happening for us

organization. This isn't new, like we had that same focus for

18 plus years now,

yeah, and you guys have been body from crisis to

clarity. I mean, it's, it's plain and simple as that, and

just execution wise, you know, you don't see a difference from

the business side. And I'm sure with all the things that you

guys have had to deal with internally, it would be easy for

all those challenges to be surfaced to the customer. And as

customers, we don't see it. And certainly, my clients who

receive gifts don't see it. And to your point, it's not about

the gift, it's it's kind of funny. People often say to me,

they're like, You know what I mean, that the item was great,

but the way it was packaged, and the note and all the thought

that went into it, that's what really stood out. And I think

that that's something that John embodied and that you have

instilled in the organization, and it's something that you know

my clients, who also use giftology, often say to me,

like, Man, I had no idea how big an impact this would have. And

the nice thing about having you on is that people get to see the

operations and the leadership behind it. That makes all that

stuff seem automatic and easy. So it's really been an honor to

have you here, Rod and to learn from you. Been a lot of fun. I

appreciate it all right, cool. Thanks so much. Yeah, take care.

Now you.