Ian Altman 0:00
Gettting trapped into discussions about attributes of competitors. Meaning you offer a certain suite of solutions for the client. And the client says, yeah, but this other competitor has a better solution when it comes to x or y. So we're going to buy 1000 different things from you, but these five different items in these two categories, these other guys have a better source than you do. Dave, are you on?
I don't know if Dave is on or not.
Dave 0:38
I'm was on mute. I apologize.
Ian Altman 0:41
It's all good. Well, usually we mute you. So in this case?
Dave 0:46
No, you're spot on so far.
Ian Altman 0:49
Okay. And so the challenge is that sometimes we get caught in this trap where now we're in a little bit of a tug of war over individual capability. So what might it sound like?
Dave 1:05
Well, I think it's easy to get, to your point, you know, they may, the client may fixate on one area where they feel like there's an advantage for their current, you know, the incumbent. You know, in our world, they're doing business with another GPO. That GPO may have preferred pricing in some categories, or they have been led to believe, by the distributor partner, that there's possibly an advantage in these areas. So instead of looking at the overall opportunity, we get fixated on, you know, one or two items, that that we, like to say, we go down the rabbit hole, and we basically start, you know, trying to figure out how to fix those. Well, how do we deal with this product, or how do we deal with this issue? And we really don't look at the overall opportunity.
Ian Altman 1:59
Sure. Well, and I think that, so there are a couple things, there are a couple techniques. One is, in the objection clinic, we have something called The Fact that I would point people to, and the idea of The Fact is, in this example, so give me a scenario where the client might say that, you know, just because I want to, I want to get kind of, in their words, what it might sound like, that they would say that you guys don't do that someone else can do better.
Dave 2:25
Well, there are certain attributes of, as an example, if you look at the golf segment, the agronomy side, they may have an equipment deal with a mowing manufacturer that produces mowing equipment, or golf cart, or things of that nature that we don't have. So they will automatically fixate on that, and then that derails the conversation
Ian Altman 2:49
Would you allow them to buy the golf carts, the equipment to the other place or would they be procluded?
Aboslutely.
Yeah. Okay. So, what I might say if you were, let's say the general manager of a club, and you were saying that to me, I'd say, okay, so, and that's something that if you've got a better relationship, and you can get that we would encourage you to get that from those people. The fact that we wouldn't be your source for the golf carts that you're going to buy every five years, would that mean that it wouldn't be worth the value and what you would get with everything else you buy every week? So what I would say is the fact that we don't do this, would that mean there's no value in all this other stuff that we do. So the single best, the knee-jerk reaction of most people in sales, is that when the client presents an objection, we feel like it's our job to overcome the objection. And what I would argue is that the best thing we can do is actually ask good questions. So they overcome the objection themselves. So if they said, Well, and you don't have someone local, in our exact area who can come by and meet with us. Okay, well, I mean, we service clients all around the world without that local presence. The fact that we're not in your same neighborhood, would that preclude us from ever working together? And they'll probably say, well, not necessarily. Okay, what are the two or three things you'd need to see so that you could be comfortable working with us even if we're not in your neighborhood? Well, I'd need to know that people are going to be responsive and that I could get people any time and this and that. Okay. How would we measure that to know that you're going to get it because I want to make sure that we're not over-promising? Well, like, would I have the rep's cell phone number? Absolutely. Yeah, that's probably good. And now they've just solved it themselves because you asked the right questions. Instead of saying, well, you know, they're really not that far away and, you know, you know, how far away is your current rep?. Well, the current rep actually lives in our basement. Oh, well, um. And then it's like, and so how do you deal with that? Instead, it's like, I don't want to get in that type of struggle with them. I don't want to be wrestling about it. I just want to find out if it's a deal killer or not? And if so, I need to know that, and if not, what do they need to see to overcome it? And so, if we ask the right questions, they'll solve it themselves if we ask the right questions. So when we're in that situation where someone says, well, you know, in terms of chemicals for the golf course, though, you know, we feel we get a better deal from so and so. Okay, well, if that's the case, I'd encourage you to keep buying those items there. Let me ask you something if it turns out that we can actually either get them more reliably for you, or if we can get them where your cost is less, or if we can just make it so that your operation is more efficient, is that worth taking a look at? And so what I just did is now all of a sudden, it's like, look, it's more than just price. If I can help improve the efficiency like I might have someone where you're going to pay an extra $300 a month in the chemicals that you're getting, but the provider that we use is going to actually put them into your storage bins for you, which is going to save you 30 hours a month of labor that right now you get the stuff and you've got to put it in the storage bins, and we would do that for you. So, you know, especially in your business, we want to, wherever we can get them to not solely focus on price because it's too easy to have a discussion just about price. But the reality is that your organization does so much that goes beyond price that if you're only focusing on price, I feel like you're probably selling yourself short.
I agree 100%? Yeah.
So does that give you some things to help with when we get in those situations where someone says, Well, these guys do this differently or that differently? If we just ask that question, say look, the fact that we don't do that one thing, and by the way, we perfectly encourage you to work with whoever you can to get the best value, the fact that we don't do that one thing, would that mean that all these other things we do wouldn't be important to you?
Dave 7:02
I love that approach. And I think it gives, again, you know, the one leverage that we have is that, like, unlike some of our competitors, we're not compliant driven. We're not, you know, we measure compliance, but we don't mandate it. So yeah, not pushing someone into, hey, if you want to take advantage of our relationship, you'll need to give us 80% of your spin, or you'll need to guarantee us this, this, and this. You know, we're almost the antithesis of that. So using that as leverage for as the ability to really have
Ian Altman 7:38
And, Dave, here's another angle, as you're, as you're saying this, try this on and tell me how this sounds. Because you have that angle, what you could say to them is, you know, oftentimes, because of the relationships people have had with other GPOs or other distributors, they feel like they're locked in because other companies require people to be locked in, they have to spend a certain amount. So if there's one area that company doesn't do, all of a sudden, it's a big deal. In our situation, we want our clients to always avail themselves of the best opportunity. So if there are two or three things that you feel you're better off buying through another channel, we encourage you to do that. And we don't penalize you for doing that. We want to make sure that you always have the best options available. Most people tell us that, across the board, we're giving the best options, but there's always going to be one or two areas that we may not have the best opportunity. So the fact that we don't directly give you what right now appears to be the best option in that one area would that preclude us from working together?
Dave 8:51
Yeah, no, I love that.
Ian Altman 8:52
Would that work?
Dave 8:54
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I would encourage, you know, my team that many of them are on this call to chime in. I mean, they're facing this in the field every day, so maybe to share and call out, you know, get a little bit of insight as to what you guys are facing. And ladies, for that matter.
Ian Altman 9:11
Absolutely.
Dave 9:19
It's just, you know, it's an easy thing to do in today's world, because, especially as we talk about trying to get to the truth, you know, if someone doesn't, you know, the root cause is, they really don't want to move. They don't want to change GPOs for other reasons, they're going to throw up these obstacles, and they're gonna throw up this rationale as to, well, I'd love to take a look at you, but you guys don't, you don't work with our chemical provider, or you don't have a golf cart dealer or you don't have an agronomy dealer or whatever that that void is. I love that positioning. You know, if we can't cover that specific category with that preclude us from doing business on all these other levels?
Ian Altman 10:04
And Dave, I think the beauty is because you don't lock people into everything else it gives you an area of distinction. Where now you can say, look, so when people are looking for a partner, they usually look at our industry is kind of shaped like a pyramid. So you go like the client vision pyramid. You're usually looking at one of three levels. The base level is, hey, I just want someone that can buy stuff for us. The next level is these organizations that have vast purchasing they generally lock you into a certain deal where you have to do X percent of your spend with us. The highest level in our industry is where you've got a partner where you can avail yourself of the best opportunity for each individual thing you need. They'll work with you to source the things where they can get you the best value and where someone else a better opportunity, they encourage you to go in that direction. Which level you're looking for And now what you've just done is we just ghosted everyone else into that middle category, and you're the only one sitting at the top.
Dave 10:58
Yeah, no, I love that. That's great.
Ian Altman 11:00
So that's, that's another way that you can go about it to help you stand out from everyone else. Because it's very easy to get commoditized in your business. But I think the way you're providing value to your clients, it's pretty straightforward. We just got to make sure that we're not playing fetch. When the client says, well, you know, I think I can get, my current vendor says they get us a better deal on golf carts. I'm sure they do. That's great. And if they do, we'd encourage you to keep buying those through them. See, we're so confident in what we do that we don't require you to buy everything through us. You can do an agreement with us, and you're going to buy all the things through us that makes sense, and the things that don't, you can still buy from other people. We don't penalize you for finding a deal that's better for you. Just most of our clients tell us that those are few and far between. So the fact that every single thing you want to purchase, we're not always going to have the best price on it, will that preclude us from ever working together? And they're gonna say, no. Okay. So what percentage of your spend do you think right now are we gonna be able to help you with? And they'll probably say, looks like with the exception of the golf carts. Okay. So how often do you guys purchase golf carts? Most of the courses we talk to, it tends to be between four and six years that they recycle their fleet. Is that about right for you guys? Yeah, that's about right. Okay. So the fact that we don't have the best option for you today, for the thing you buy every five years, would that preclude us from working together? And like when you say it that way, it's so obvious. No, of course, it wouldn't matter, Dave. Okay, great. Then how do we move forward?
Dave 12:43
Yeah. No. I love it.
Unknown Speaker 12:44
Ian, I've seen David Hamilton at many sales calls, and that's what he does. What you just said is what he does to the client verbatim.
Dave 12:53
Well, it helps that I sold golf carts for 20 years.
Ian Altman 12:56
Yeah. Well, yeah.
Dave 13:00
I mean, it really is. I mean, I think it's just so important today in this in the climate that we're in right now to be able to position yourself, you know, with the tactics as you're talking about. Then you don't, it's so easy to get caught up in a market basket, or well, let me look at your pricing and then I'll get back to you and let you know. You know, years ago, one of my mentors told me, I know, I think it was the lady earlier that was speaking, I apologize, lost her name, but was talking about proposals. Maria. And, you know, one of the things that I heard that was wonderful, as you know, a proposal in the scheme of things really should be a confirmation of the terms and conditions you've already agreed upon. It shouldn't be, let me float this pricing out, and then you tell me how it looks, and then I'll tell you that we won't be able to meet that because the scope of what you're asking me for is much deeper than what we've actually put on paper. I think you're you know, when you get into that you think about you know, the proposal or in our world, you know that conversation should never be a surprise. You know, it should be a conversation.
Ian Altman 14:09
Exactly.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Ian Altman 0:00
Gettting trapped into discussions about attributes of competitors. Meaning you offer a certain suite of solutions for the client. And the client says, yeah, but this other competitor has a better solution when it comes to x or y. So we're going to buy 1000 different things from you, but these five different items in these two categories, these other guys have a better source than you do. Dave, are you on?
I don't know if Dave is on or not.
Dave 0:38
I'm was on mute. I apologize.
Ian Altman 0:41
It's all good. Well, usually we mute you. So in this case?
Dave 0:46
No, you're spot on so far.
Ian Altman 0:49
Okay. And so the challenge is that sometimes we get caught in this trap where now we're in a little bit of a tug of war over individual capability. So what might it sound like?
Dave 1:05
Well, I think it's easy to get, to your point, you know, they may, the client may fixate on one area where they feel like there's an advantage for their current, you know, the incumbent. You know, in our world, they're doing business with another GPO. That GPO may have preferred pricing in some categories, or they have been led to believe, by the distributor partner, that there's possibly an advantage in these areas. So instead of looking at the overall opportunity, we get fixated on, you know, one or two items, that that we, like to say, we go down the rabbit hole, and we basically start, you know, trying to figure out how to fix those. Well, how do we deal with this product, or how do we deal with this issue? And we really don't look at the overall opportunity.
Ian Altman 1:59
Sure. Well, and I think that, so there are a couple things, there are a couple techniques. One is, in the objection clinic, we have something called The Fact that I would point people to, and the idea of The Fact is, in this example, so give me a scenario where the client might say that, you know, just because I want to, I want to get kind of, in their words, what it might sound like, that they would say that you guys don't do that someone else can do better.
Dave 2:25
Well, there are certain attributes of, as an example, if you look at the golf segment, the agronomy side, they may have an equipment deal with a mowing manufacturer that produces mowing equipment, or golf cart, or things of that nature that we don't have. So they will automatically fixate on that, and then that derails the conversation
Ian Altman 2:49
Would you allow them to buy the golf carts, the equipment to the other place or would they be procluded?
Aboslutely.
Yeah. Okay. So, what I might say if you were, let's say the general manager of a club, and you were saying that to me, I'd say, okay, so, and that's something that if you've got a better relationship, and you can get that we would encourage you to get that from those people. The fact that we wouldn't be your source for the golf carts that you're going to buy every five years, would that mean that it wouldn't be worth the value and what you would get with everything else you buy every week? So what I would say is the fact that we don't do this, would that mean there's no value in all this other stuff that we do. So the single best, the knee-jerk reaction of most people in sales, is that when the client presents an objection, we feel like it's our job to overcome the objection. And what I would argue is that the best thing we can do is actually ask good questions. So they overcome the objection themselves. So if they said, Well, and you don't have someone local, in our exact area who can come by and meet with us. Okay, well, I mean, we service clients all around the world without that local presence. The fact that we're not in your same neighborhood, would that preclude us from ever working together? And they'll probably say, well, not necessarily. Okay, what are the two or three things you'd need to see so that you could be comfortable working with us even if we're not in your neighborhood? Well, I'd need to know that people are going to be responsive and that I could get people any time and this and that. Okay. How would we measure that to know that you're going to get it because I want to make sure that we're not over-promising? Well, like, would I have the rep's cell phone number? Absolutely. Yeah, that's probably good. And now they've just solved it themselves because you asked the right questions. Instead of saying, well, you know, they're really not that far away and, you know, you know, how far away is your current rep?. Well, the current rep actually lives in our basement. Oh, well, um. And then it's like, and so how do you deal with that? Instead, it's like, I don't want to get in that type of struggle with them. I don't want to be wrestling about it. I just want to find out if it's a deal killer or not? And if so, I need to know that, and if not, what do they need to see to overcome it? And so, if we ask the right questions, they'll solve it themselves if we ask the right questions. So when we're in that situation where someone says, well, you know, in terms of chemicals for the golf course, though, you know, we feel we get a better deal from so and so. Okay, well, if that's the case, I'd encourage you to keep buying those items there. Let me ask you something if it turns out that we can actually either get them more reliably for you, or if we can get them where your cost is less, or if we can just make it so that your operation is more efficient, is that worth taking a look at? And so what I just did is now all of a sudden, it's like, look, it's more than just price. If I can help improve the efficiency like I might have someone where you're going to pay an extra $300 a month in the chemicals that you're getting, but the provider that we use is going to actually put them into your storage bins for you, which is going to save you 30 hours a month of labor that right now you get the stuff and you've got to put it in the storage bins, and we would do that for you. So, you know, especially in your business, we want to, wherever we can get them to not solely focus on price because it's too easy to have a discussion just about price. But the reality is that your organization does so much that goes beyond price that if you're only focusing on price, I feel like you're probably selling yourself short.
I agree 100%? Yeah.
So does that give you some things to help with when we get in those situations where someone says, Well, these guys do this differently or that differently? If we just ask that question, say look, the fact that we don't do that one thing, and by the way, we perfectly encourage you to work with whoever you can to get the best value, the fact that we don't do that one thing, would that mean that all these other things we do wouldn't be important to you?
Dave 7:02
I love that approach. And I think it gives, again, you know, the one leverage that we have is that, like, unlike some of our competitors, we're not compliant driven. We're not, you know, we measure compliance, but we don't mandate it. So yeah, not pushing someone into, hey, if you want to take advantage of our relationship, you'll need to give us 80% of your spin, or you'll need to guarantee us this, this, and this. You know, we're almost the antithesis of that. So using that as leverage for as the ability to really have
Ian Altman 7:38
And, Dave, here's another angle, as you're, as you're saying this, try this on and tell me how this sounds. Because you have that angle, what you could say to them is, you know, oftentimes, because of the relationships people have had with other GPOs or other distributors, they feel like they're locked in because other companies require people to be locked in, they have to spend a certain amount. So if there's one area that company doesn't do, all of a sudden, it's a big deal. In our situation, we want our clients to always avail themselves of the best opportunity. So if there are two or three things that you feel you're better off buying through another channel, we encourage you to do that. And we don't penalize you for doing that. We want to make sure that you always have the best options available. Most people tell us that, across the board, we're giving the best options, but there's always going to be one or two areas that we may not have the best opportunity. So the fact that we don't directly give you what right now appears to be the best option in that one area would that preclude us from working together?
Dave 8:51
Yeah, no, I love that.
Ian Altman 8:52
Would that work?
Dave 8:54
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I would encourage, you know, my team that many of them are on this call to chime in. I mean, they're facing this in the field every day, so maybe to share and call out, you know, get a little bit of insight as to what you guys are facing. And ladies, for that matter.
Ian Altman 9:11
Absolutely.
Dave 9:19
It's just, you know, it's an easy thing to do in today's world, because, especially as we talk about trying to get to the truth, you know, if someone doesn't, you know, the root cause is, they really don't want to move. They don't want to change GPOs for other reasons, they're going to throw up these obstacles, and they're gonna throw up this rationale as to, well, I'd love to take a look at you, but you guys don't, you don't work with our chemical provider, or you don't have a golf cart dealer or you don't have an agronomy dealer or whatever that that void is. I love that positioning. You know, if we can't cover that specific category with that preclude us from doing business on all these other levels?
Ian Altman 10:04
And Dave, I think the beauty is because you don't lock people into everything else it gives you an area of distinction. Where now you can say, look, so when people are looking for a partner, they usually look at our industry is kind of shaped like a pyramid. So you go like the client vision pyramid. You're usually looking at one of three levels. The base level is, hey, I just want someone that can buy stuff for us. The next level is these organizations that have vast purchasing they generally lock you into a certain deal where you have to do X percent of your spend with us. The highest level in our industry is where you've got a partner where you can avail yourself of the best opportunity for each individual thing you need. They'll work with you to source the things where they can get you the best value and where someone else a better opportunity, they encourage you to go in that direction. Which level you're looking for And now what you've just done is we just ghosted everyone else into that middle category, and you're the only one sitting at the top.
Dave 10:58
Yeah, no, I love that. That's great.
Ian Altman 11:00
So that's, that's another way that you can go about it to help you stand out from everyone else. Because it's very easy to get commoditized in your business. But I think the way you're providing value to your clients, it's pretty straightforward. We just got to make sure that we're not playing fetch. When the client says, well, you know, I think I can get, my current vendor says they get us a better deal on golf carts. I'm sure they do. That's great. And if they do, we'd encourage you to keep buying those through them. See, we're so confident in what we do that we don't require you to buy everything through us. You can do an agreement with us, and you're going to buy all the things through us that makes sense, and the things that don't, you can still buy from other people. We don't penalize you for finding a deal that's better for you. Just most of our clients tell us that those are few and far between. So the fact that every single thing you want to purchase, we're not always going to have the best price on it, will that preclude us from ever working together? And they're gonna say, no. Okay. So what percentage of your spend do you think right now are we gonna be able to help you with? And they'll probably say, looks like with the exception of the golf carts. Okay. So how often do you guys purchase golf carts? Most of the courses we talk to, it tends to be between four and six years that they recycle their fleet. Is that about right for you guys? Yeah, that's about right. Okay. So the fact that we don't have the best option for you today, for the thing you buy every five years, would that preclude us from working together? And like when you say it that way, it's so obvious. No, of course, it wouldn't matter, Dave. Okay, great. Then how do we move forward?
Dave 12:43
Yeah. No. I love it.
Unknown Speaker 12:44
Ian, I've seen David Hamilton at many sales calls, and that's what he does. What you just said is what he does to the client verbatim.
Dave 12:53
Well, it helps that I sold golf carts for 20 years.
Ian Altman 12:56
Yeah. Well, yeah.
Dave 13:00
I mean, it really is. I mean, I think it's just so important today in this in the climate that we're in right now to be able to position yourself, you know, with the tactics as you're talking about. Then you don't, it's so easy to get caught up in a market basket, or well, let me look at your pricing and then I'll get back to you and let you know. You know, years ago, one of my mentors told me, I know, I think it was the lady earlier that was speaking, I apologize, lost her name, but was talking about proposals. Maria. And, you know, one of the things that I heard that was wonderful, as you know, a proposal in the scheme of things really should be a confirmation of the terms and conditions you've already agreed upon. It shouldn't be, let me float this pricing out, and then you tell me how it looks, and then I'll tell you that we won't be able to meet that because the scope of what you're asking me for is much deeper than what we've actually put on paper. I think you're you know, when you get into that you think about you know, the proposal or in our world, you know that conversation should never be a surprise. You know, it should be a conversation.
Ian Altman 14:09
Exactly.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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